Me: Yes. The world has a long legal history for this. Hell even here in the states. The Bay Colony made all parents responsible for their underaged childrens actions. In the world of politics and buisness the boss is responsible for the underlings actions. I think thats a good example. If a teenager murders well then the teen should be tried as an adult and the parents (for lack of supervising and clearly lack or exteme pushments) should get a year or two in prison as well. A teen drunk driving well a year in jail would be good for the teen and a 5 grand fine against the parents sounds about right, and so forth and so on. In our current world where parents don't discipline their kids this would be an effective way to make sure that happens. With the reestablishment of discipline and real parenting in this country the crime rate should drop nicely.
Alicia: Parents do need to step it up but a teen is their own person at that point they know what is right and wrong so they want to be stupid they need to be held accountable not the parent. The problem is kids need to be parented stricter at younger ages once they are teens your pretty much done it's more well you know their are actions and reactions for what you do and raised right you already have the fear of death put into them. plus how many kids would do stuff just to get their parents in trouble so they wouldn't be around and wouldn't have to deal with strict rules. so overall teens are accountable for their own actions. Parents need to hold children accountable for their actions starting at much younger ages.As well as STOP using the TV and VIDEO GAMES, and COMPUTER to watch them.
Me:
Oh I agree with you Lee. Just as you point out clearly parents aren't doing their job in the least. TV, Video games, and Computers are raising our kids now. So lets look at this from a critical point of view. In essence parents are refusing to do their job. In your words "kids need to be parented stricter at younger ages" The fact you say this means you agree with this point. Alright so kids and teens acting out is largely due to parents refusing to do what a parent needs to do. Therefore the actions taken by those kids and teens are partly a result of parents in-action. So why can't they be considered accomplices? In some parts of this country if we see a crime being commited and don't call for help quick enough we can end up in jail as an accomplice. So legally one who's in-actions leads to a crime or assists in the act of crime can be held accountable for the crime to a lesser degree. By your own statement part of the problem is the parents own in-action. Logically that should make the parents in-action a crime.
Another point even if your willing to exempt the parents from the legal responsibility they have you still need to find a way to motivate them to do what needs to be done. Well what works? The goverment can't coming into your house and tell you how to raise your kid, they can't take your kids away for a reason other than physical abuse so what other options are there than to hold them accountable for the results of their in-action? I would love nothing more than to have you tell me there is another way. I don't want to see this happen cause I understand there's difficulties in parenting. Yet on this topic I can not find any other or any better way to better society peacefully.
Another point even if your willing to exempt the parents from the legal responsibility they have you still need to find a way to motivate them to do what needs to be done. Well what works? The goverment can't coming into your house and tell you how to raise your kid, they can't take your kids away for a reason other than physical abuse so what other options are there than to hold them accountable for the results of their in-action? I would love nothing more than to have you tell me there is another way. I don't want to see this happen cause I understand there's difficulties in parenting. Yet on this topic I can not find any other or any better way to better society peacefully.
Alicia: You missed my point by the time they are Teens your done. It's to late for parents to be taught that they fucked up. I understand your point but when you were a teen and decided to do something wrong you were ready to accept the blame and was your choice. Your parents had no help in your choice so why should they be blamed if for example you got caught in the woods smoking pot.
I think their needs to be some kind of parenting class or something for parents who have kids that are causing trouble. Just interrupting a non parenting parent's life could be enough to get them going. For example smoking pot the parent should go to classes about how to spot drug use etc.
I think their needs to be some kind of parenting class or something for parents who have kids that are causing trouble. Just interrupting a non parenting parent's life could be enough to get them going. For example smoking pot the parent should go to classes about how to spot drug use etc.
Me: I did get the point you were making that by the teens your done. My point was a way to get them to parent properly early in ones life based on the knowledge that in the future they could be held somewhat accountable. That being said. After looking at your idea of punishment for the parents though its not as extreme as mine I do see it working and working well. So it may work without going to an extreme therefore I actually would back this idea before my own. It is a form of punishment without having the possibility of ruining a life. I like it. Thats what I meant by if you have a better way :D
Alicia: I am glad but this also mean corporation with schools if a kid is very aggressive to other kids as and 8 year old if left untreated he would be a terror as a 16 year old. So schools should be able to send parents to a class about what causes aggression how to deal with it. The kid could have a disorder. Of course if a kid is already diagnosed with something there shouldn't be any consequence to the parent as they are already dealing with the issues.
I am just afraid some schools will go extreme to one side or the other sending a kid who ever shows agression once into the program therefore most of the school ends up going or the opposite they won't report at all.
I am just afraid some schools will go extreme to one side or the other sending a kid who ever shows agression once into the program therefore most of the school ends up going or the opposite they won't report at all.
Me: True. Its estimated that one out of every ten people are sociopaths [The Sociopath Next Door]. So there is a possibility that a kid could have a disorder that makes them prone to violence and or acting out. Now we get into a different discussion though, what disorders are genetic and what disorders are enviormental? And which are both? Not always the easiest questions to answer. So there should be some lenency towards parents with kids that have a disorder that are already acting to try and control/deal with the disorder.
Now your talking school based programs. Even with your idea I was thinking court based programs. But if you combine them both I see the court being able to stop the school programs from going to extreme in either direction as long as what ever establishes this program is written correctly. If the schools and courts work as a check and balance against each other I see a great program.
Now your talking school based programs. Even with your idea I was thinking court based programs. But if you combine them both I see the court being able to stop the school programs from going to extreme in either direction as long as what ever establishes this program is written correctly. If the schools and courts work as a check and balance against each other I see a great program.
Alicia:
Well i say school because preferably it needs to be stopped before they grow older and get to criminal behavior.
I was earlier talking about court mandated and yes the two need to be combined in some fashion.
I was earlier talking about court mandated and yes the two need to be combined in some fashion.
another thing is jobs shouldn't be able to fire people for having to go to these meetings. To many parents are more concerned with work. Both rents have to work to be even middle class these days. Which really doesn't help kids. Back in the days of stay at home mom's or mom's who worked parttime while kids where at school. Kids were parented better. Of course i am not saying mom's need to not have careers but mom or dad needs a career that is more flexible and allows them to be home more.
Me: Well I think this goes into discussion out of Manufacturing Concent. The idea that the upper class, and politicans work to create a society in which the middle class has to work to an extreme amount to stay middle class making them nothing more than tired exsausted drones. I agree with this idea for two reasons 1. I was there. I was in that boat. and 2. I see my parents everyday. They both work their asses off come home eat dinner and pass out. They don't have the energy or the time to criticly look at the world around them. At the same time I will say my own disorder aside my Mother did quit her job when I was born and raised me until high school and in that period they just went without many things.
Alicia: yes well child care is very expensive and half the time one parents salary goes straight to paying for the child care. It can be more cost effective to be a stay at home parent esp with young children in preschool. It's hard to find part time jobs during school hours too but that's another discussion.
You also hit the nail on the head "they just went without many things." Parents don't want to give anything up now a days. Having kids is a sacrifice and if your not willing to make it don't have kids hence why I don't have kids yet. When i am ready to let my life not be mine I will have them.
You also hit the nail on the head "they just went without many things." Parents don't want to give anything up now a days. Having kids is a sacrifice and if your not willing to make it don't have kids hence why I don't have kids yet. When i am ready to let my life not be mine I will have them.
